Micro Steps to Macro Success featuring Joe Ciccarone

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:00:00

If you keep taking those next micro steps six months from now, you're not going to recognize that aspect of your life where it was. You're not going to believe where it was before, because next thing you know, you're going to be in a pickleball league, or you're going to be playing happy birthday on the piano, or you're going to be on the jiu jitsu mat training twice a week. So I would just take that next micro step that you could do in 10 seconds.

Kate Volman [: 00:00:26

This is lead with culture. I'm Kate Volman, and this is a different type of episode. This is an episode where we dive in a little bit more about the creative process and personal and professional development. So I was joined by Joe Chicharron, who is a district sales manager. He is also a black belt in brazilian jiu jitsu, which is amazing. And he's also the host of Built Not Born podcast, in addition to the work that he does in sales as a sales manager, and he is the manager for about ten different sales professionals, but he also taps into his creativity, and he does a lot of other things in his life to really fill him up, to help him become the best version of himself. He also has interviewed some really incredible people on the podcast. And so I really enjoy talking to podcasters because they've interviewed great people.

Kate Volman [: 00:01:24

So they have a lot of different ideas and perspectives and thoughts and questions, and they collect all of these ideas from other people. And that's what we talked about in this episode. So if you are someone who maybe you have a creative project, or maybe you have a dream in your heart that you've been talking about for a long time, and you just haven't allowed yourself to go after that dream. This is a great episode to listen to because we talked about how he got started with his podcast while working, and also some of the ways to grow personally and professionally, we talked a little bit about some of the questions that he's asked his guests. We talked also about the common denominator that he sees and the successful people that he's had on the show and what they say really works for them to help them become the best version of themselves. We dig into all of that on this episode, so I hope you enjoy it. Joe, thank you so much. I'm so excited to be talking to you.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:02:30

Kate, it's great to be on lead with culture. It's an honor. Thanks for having me.

Kate Volman [: 00:02:33

Thanks for having me on your podcast. It was really a fun opportunity. That's kind of how you and I met getting to be a guest on the built not born podcast, which is such a great show. So for those that are listening, you got to go check that out. Joe has some great guests.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:02:51

Oh, you crushed it. No, it's great to have you on. Awesome.

Kate Volman [: 00:02:53

So, Joe, I feel like we've been getting to know each other a little bit over the past couple months, and we're very like minded, and you're just, as our listeners, very growth oriented and continuously learning and growing. And we were talking about, okay, what should we really focus on with this episode to make sure that the listeners get a lot of value out of it? And why don't you start? Because there's a lot of different directions we could go. Because you're in sales. You're also a very creative person. You also are very athletic person. So why don't you give people a little overview of who is Joe?

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:03:27

My name is Joe Chickarone. I'm a husband of one, dad of three, got two boys and a girl. I am a district sales manager for a medical sales company in the Philadelphia area. And on the side, I'm a black belt. Brazilian jiu jitsu. See the map behind me? The training. Brazilian jiu jitsu for 20 years. For those who train, those who know, know, it's just such an amazing aspect of your life.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:03:51

It just makes you grow in so many ways and just keeps your ego so in check. And then also, too, on the side. About three years back, this is Adair. I started a podcast during COVID called it built not Born. And next thing you know, I got 140 episodes with guests like Kate Bowman, Seth Godin, guy Kawasaki, Jay papas. On the one thing I had, NFL general managers that won Super Bowls, us special forces operators. It's crazy having a podcast and, you know, kind of focusing on it and working it, and it's an experiment at best and iterating and slowly getting better and just taking a page out of your book. I mean, just doing something creative and just doing little.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:04:29

Little things each day, little iterations. Like three years later, next thing you know, you're talking to Seth Godin for an hour, and you're like, I can't believe I'm talking to Seth Godin for an hour. That's basically me in a nutshell, and, you know, definitely don't have it all figured out. I guess that's why I do the podcast. I interview smart people like you, kind of tease out their ideas, tactics, and strategies, and then I kind of send it out to the world and say, hey, I learned this from them. I thought I'd share, and that's basically my podcast.

Kate Volman [: 00:04:54

That's one of the best reasons to have a podcast, is you get to listen, you get to talk to really cool people doing really interesting work in the world and learning from their experiences, and they're really great conversations. I want to dig in a little bit, because there's a lot of people out there that are listening, that are an executive, they lead a team, they work for an organization, and they really do enjoy their work. A lot of our listeners really value the work that they do, and they really love it and they really love their teams. But there's kind of something missing on that creative side. And they do have an idea of, we talk to people all the time that they want to write a book or they think, oh, I see people starting YouTube channels or people that are sharing their ideas with the world, and they kind of stop themselves from doing that. And I find it interesting that for a living, you do sales, and that's what you do. And you lead a team of ten people, which is no small feat. And you also make time in your life to not only devote to your family, your kids, your wife and Jujitsu, to stay mentally, physically well, and in shape, but then this podcast that has really become such a big part of your life, and I think a lot of people get intimidated by starting a project like that.

Kate Volman [: 00:06:14

So can you walk through a little bit? Like, how did you really come up with the idea? I mean, I know it was Covid, so a lot of people came up with lots of ideas, but you not only came up with it, but then you executed on it. I mean, had you had experience in podcasting? Did you even know what you were doing? Did you have a microphone? Like, what are all the steps that you took to get started in your project?

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:06:35

Basically the creativity part of things forever. Like, I was an accountant when I started, and I was maybe in the mid nineties when I was out of college, and there was a point I might have been the worst accountant in the state of Pennsylvania. I just picked the wrong career. You're 18 years old. Your head's in the fog. I actually had an uncle who was the controller for Adidas in America. He ran the accounting department, and then when I went up there, I had no idea what he did. Like, zero.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:07:01

I couldn't tell you what an accountant did. I know my uncle was an accountant, and I'd go to his house. It was a big house. He had a great family, five kids, swimming pool, and every time I'd show up at his house and give me the Adidas catalog. I want to do what he's doing. And I was so clueless. I never had one conversation of, like, what's your day look like? Or, what do you do? What's, like, an accountant do? I just knew accountants, made money, had nice houses, great families, and gave out cool gear. So I go to college, and I'm starting doing these accounting classes.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:07:29

I go to Bloomsburg University, grade school. Love it. Loved every moment there. Went there and, like, about two classes in. I'm like, this ain't clicking. Every accounting class I struggle, this may be. I'm making this up. Ten accounting classes, you got to take the four years to become an accounting major.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:07:45

Not one was fun, and, like, what am I doing? It was about the junior year. I figured out, like, I don't want to do this. This is kind of, like, my best trait and my worst trait. Sometimes your strength, your biggest strength is also your biggest weakness. I can put my head down and just go through just chaos. I'm going to stop and pivot. Like, an intelligent person would stop and say, okay, forget the sunk costs. I'm moving to the side.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:08:09

This isn't working. I will just grind through it and, like, go through nonsense just to complete the goal. Long story short, I went to a radio station as their. They hired me as their accountant. I thought, maybe I'll just go to a cool company. After about a year there, they call it. Came in and said, hey, Joe, we like you here. You're not an accountant.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:08:26

You should be in sales. So I switched over to sales, and I realized I knew nothing about sales. Like, zero, besides having, like, a sort of outgoing personality and, like, talking to people. Like, I had no idea. I'm a low anxiety person, and I was getting anxiety. I'm like, I am going to go bankrupt. They're going to take my car, and I'm not going to be able to pay my rent because I'm 100% commission based. Sales, like, you would get 10% what you sold, no salary.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:08:51

I started reading everything I could. I found an author. His name was Jeffrey Gittamer. He was writing articles in this business journal. Next thing you know, I'm reading his articles, I'm cutting his articles out. I'm making my own binders of his articles. He had, like, 18 books. I devoured them.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:09:06

I kind of taught myself how to sell. And then from that point, I developed, like, a mindset where I'm just always trying to read the books became, like, now webinars and courses. I'm always trying to take a course, like two, three times a year. I'll buy a $400 course and just take it and just see what I can learn and try to pull it into my professional or daily life. So I've been like a lifelong learner, probably since I left college. So I'm a way better student now. But how I get into the podcast, I maybe have 200 articles out and I'm like, you know what scares me? Podcasting. Podcasting came out.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:09:37

Joe Rogan, Tim Ferriss, like Jocko Wellink, Ryan Holiday, all these amazing podcasts are out there. And that is so cool. But I didn't know how to do it.

Kate Volman [: 00:09:46

How long were you doing blogging?

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:09:49

I probably started a blog back in like 2014, 2015. I wasn't prolific. I might have done one every two weeks. I took off a year or two. I maybe had like 200 posts.

Kate Volman [: 00:09:58

What were you blogging about?

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:09:59

It was like what I noticed, like self development stuff, like getting a dog for the first time, like family stuff, taking the first vacation that we flew away. I blew my ACL out on jiu jitsu. Like ten people asked me what the operation was like. I kind of walked through the injury. I did a couple posts on the series of getting injured. What it's like getting an MRI, what it's like post surgery. Like, I did stuff like that. Just whatever was on my mind.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:10:22

Short articles, 2300 words, and I'd post them. Some would get a thousand views, some would get five views. It was just more like something to be creative. That's when I first had that, like, creative vibe. I'm sure you thought this, like, what did you feel the first time you did a blog post and you hit send? Like, that was the scariest thing for me ever. Joe.

Kate Volman [: 00:10:41

I remember years and years ago, the first time I got a comment on a blog post that I wrote, and it was a girl talking about how she resonated so much with the post. And I remember jumping up and down in my place because it was like the best feeling to have connected with somebody that was like, oh, they feel this same way.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:11:01

I remember when I put my first one up, I almost took it down. I got so scared. And I wrote about nothing. I was such an innocuous topic. I wrote about, people are going to make fun of it. They're going to make. This guy lost his mind. He was here to write anything.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:11:12

And I put it, I think I posted it on Facebook, pressed the link on Facebook or something, and I'm like, oh, my God. Everyone's laughing at me a day later. Like, I downloaded it, and, like, I went on a website, looked and I went, like, you could see how many people looked at your thing. You looked at your article. The next day there was one, and that was me. I told my wife and my mom, I go, hey, that blog I was telling you about, I actually wrote my first post, and it's up. And I texted them or emailed them the first link, and then, like, 24 hours later, I looked again of, like, who watched? Who looked at it? Like, how many people? And then it was two. They're not going to make fun of.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:11:46

You're going to get ignored in the beginning, right? Their creativity, like, 99.99% for a while, you're just going to get ignored because the world is so busy and noisy.

Kate Volman [: 00:11:56

I find it interesting that you were just open to sharing just your experiences. That, to me, feels like you can't go wrong if all you're doing is sharing your experiences. It's just you and how you handle the situation or dealt with something or how you interpret something that you went through or read or saw or discovered. And so you can't really go wrong with that one.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:12:19

That definitely got some traffic. We have a little poodle. She's, like, about a year old. She's awesome. Everyone loves her. But, like, a couple of years back, we were not dog owners. And by for the first, we were looking for dogs during COVID and the dogs were going like this. And we wanted a little dog for our daughter, who was like eight years old at the time.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:12:36

And we looked at, like 40 dogs, and all 40 went over, like six months. And then we found this lab that was 100 pounds, that was like six years old. Maybe the owner died or got sick or something like that. So we went to foster it, and we had no idea what we were doing. Zero. And we brought the dog in and we didn't realize it had anxiety. Every time there were fireworks, it flipped out. We were just.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:13:00

Weren't the right owners for that dog. And we literally had the dog. We counted for 68 hours. We had to give it back to the place where we got it. And since it was adopted immediately after, we brought it back, but, like, we called in the restaurant place, like, we're just not the right owners. It was twice the size of my daughter. Like, every time my daughter tried to walk it, it was like she's trying to walk like a horse. It would literally knock her over.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:13:20

So I wrote an article on it. That's the first one where, like, people would come up to me on the street and they'd be like, oh, it happened to us. Or like, I can't believe you gave that dog back. Like, it's funny. You put something like, you hear nothing forever. Then eventually, if you keep going and have that consistency, eventually you strike a chord, you make a connection, right? And then all of a sudden, you build a small following. Find ten people, serve those ten people, and they'll tell a person. They'll tell a person.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:13:47

And then, like you mentioned about the podcast. So Seth does that course over Covid. He said, I'll teach you how to podcast. And I saw that. I got nervous because I knew, wow. The only reason why I wasn't doing it, one I was afraid. My excuse was, I don't know how. And he showed you you need nothing.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:14:02

You need a lap top and a wired microphone. That's all I got. I got nothing but a MacBook air and a wired microphone. I try to keep it real simple. If I make a complicated need, like, fancy gets broken in my world, I keep things, like, real simple. Long story short, he shows you how to do it. And we got the podcast up. But then now, like, I'll post something.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:14:20

Now we can go into the thousands, which is cool. And it took three years, though. And granted, we're still microscopically small, but, like, it went from zero to, like, what else can I do that, like, 2000 people would interact with?

Kate Volman [: 00:14:34

That's awesome. And I'm sure you've learned a lot about yourself. Talk a little bit about how starting the podcast helped you get better at sales.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:14:48

It's so humbling, the podcast, because one, like, you can compare your second episode to Joe Rogan, Tim Ferriss, Jocko Willink, Ryan Holiday, Malcolm Gladwell, and you're like, I'm horrendous. It's like a kid in middle school comparing themselves to LeBron. Like, I shouldn't even be on the court shooting hoops. Like, it's not even close. But when you do it, you learn, like, I've become such better at asking questions. You realize everyone doesn't think the way you think. Everyone does not believe what you believe. Everyone doesn't want what you want.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:15:23

Everyone's goal isn't your goal. And that's great because they can have wildly successful lives doing things completely different than you did. And it's amazing hearing perspectives. We're like, you know what? I'm not sure I agree with that. But, wow, look at their success. There's so many ways to get there, you know, what? I mean, if you're going to Philadelphia, to Florida, you could fly, you could drive. If you're rich, you could take your helicopter, and each one will get you there. And not one's wrong or right.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:15:52

It's like, what are you trying to accomplish? Are you trying to do? Where are you going? Why are you going? It gives you empathy and perspective. Be able to look through someone else's eyes and say, wow. They look at the world completely different than I do. And that's okay, because they're wildly successful. They live a great life. They're doing great things. And I do my best to implement one or two things out of each episode. I try to implement into my life, either my work or personal life.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:16:17

Some of them are just, like, life changing. Like, some of the. Some of the ideas they share.

Kate Volman [: 00:16:21

So you've had so many guests on, very diverse, from, like, leaders to athletes to just different creators. What are some of the words of wisdom that really spoke to you? I hate asking if there's, like, a favorite episode. Cause I don't want you to have to call out your favorite guests. But are there? What are some.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:16:40

I'm like, I could have took it down the jiu jitsu path and just had a grow fast. Just a bunch of tough jujitsu dudes and just everyone talking about their latest fight, the UFC. But I want that. And that's every couple episodes then. Every couple episodes. I want a business leader. Every couple episodes. I want a female who's rocking it out every couple episodes.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:17:00

I want someone of color or a minority to show me how great they're doing in their world. I want to steal perspectives from everybody. It's very diverse. So thank you for noticing that. It's something I really try from out the 10th episode on. But what I learned, like, one, the empathy and perspective, that's probably the big thing. But, like, there's so many ways to tackle your day. Like, you hear, like, oh, you got to get up at 05:00 a.m.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:17:21

crump. I'm sure most of a lot of people in your audience listed read that book. Or, like, you got to get up early. You got to get up at 330 in the morning. There's wildly successful people on my podcast and have best selling books that meet with billionaires that sleep in, that work late. They love working at midnight. One, two, three in the morning. You don't have to get up early.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:17:41

Or maybe you want to stay up late. You don't have to read. Maybe some people just read newspapers. They don't read books. Some people don't read books, they just do podcasts. Some people don't do podcasts at all. They just read books. Like, everyone has their own unique way to rock out their version of the world.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:17:59

And I think you gotta figure out who you are, what do you wanna accomplish and what you're willing to pay to get there.

Kate Volman [: 00:18:06

What you're willing to pay to get there. I find that to be so interesting. Like you, I got into personal development very young. I was listening to Tony Robbins cds and doing the courses and learning about all that stuff, and it's almost like confirmation bias, right? Like, you hear, oh, you have to wake up at 05:00 a.m. and you have to have this morning routine. You have to do all these things. And it's even worse now, because now we're fed. If you watch one video about waking up at five in the morning, now you're seeing 20, and you now believe, oh, I have to do these things.

Kate Volman [: 00:18:37

But there really is something to be said about how do you do your best work, and it could look very different than somebody else, and you don't have to. That's why I got rid of have to or need to or should in my vocabulary when I'm talking to people, because I don't know what's best for them. I don't know if they should read more books. Like in my life. I know it's made a big impact, but for them, it might be something very different. And so I think that's really interesting that you have talked to so many people and noticing that, yes, there's a common thread, but they also kind of figured out their own way. What are some of the common pieces of advice or things that you have seen throughout everyone? As much as there are some differences, like, these are the things that everybody says.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:19:23

Awesome. First off goes to that great Socrates quote, know thyself. Like, you have to know yourself. Like, you can't try to be somebody else. What works for you and your family and your wife, or husband or kids or boyfriend, girlfriend, you got to know what works for you. So, knowing thyself, it starts there. But like a couple common things. You see, every people do that.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:19:43

They're very successful. One is they stay in shape mentally and physically. Everyone's workout routine's different. Like, oh, you gotta do jujitsu, you gotta do yoga, you gotta do kettlebells, whatever. There's a million ways to stay in shape. I like to bike, hike, whatever it is, you have to do something and move. I can't think of any guest I had that doesn't have some sort of exercise routine. And they're all over the place, from crazy to moderate.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:20:10

There's something they do every day to marathon runners to like. They just like to go to the gym in the morning, run on the treadmill. They keep themselves physically fit, also too mentally fit. They're always learning, and the learning is different. Some are audible books, some are taking courses, some are reading books. Some are talking to really smart people all the time. They do mastermind groups where they link up and maybe they have a weekly call with a mentor, they have a coach. They're always learning mentally.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:20:36

They're always staying strong physically. There are two things there, and then also two, they carve time out for what's important. Because if accept what I always say. Like, if you wait for, like, everything to be calm and, oh, I'm gonna have some space before you do something, you'll never do it. You have to create the space in the chaos of the day, the day you have four conference calls and you have to find that 20 minutes, that half hour to take the walk, to lift the kettlebells, to write the blog post. You have to carve that out. No one is going to give that to you. You have to find some sort of routine, tactics, habits to say, maybe start with 20 minutes.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:21:15

Like, you start with 4 hours, you're going to fail. No one has 4 hours. But if you say, hey, 20 minutes today, hey, I want to write a blog and I am going to write on my laptop for 20 minutes today. And it's not just say, you do it, you got to put it in your calendar. I used to get in trouble with to do list because it's like a wish list. You do a to do list and it's like 27 things. You got to take like two or three vip's of that day. And not only say, start on the side, like, this is tomorrow's project, take those three.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:21:43

And not just put a list, all of them. You have to look in your calendar what tomorrow looks like and put it in. Schedule the time. Like when I drop my daughter off at the bus, my first conference calls at 09:00 a.m. i drop her off at the bus at 745. I'm going to write my blog post from eight to 820. If I don't feel like it, I'm going to do it. And I'm not saying the blog post will be ready.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:22:06

Then I might have to do that four times. I might do that four days in a row and maybe one other edit. It might take five of those sessions to come up with a valid blog post in my head that I'm happy to send out. But like, you gotta put those 20 minutes in. If everyone just took that away, that's such a game changer. There's a great quote where like, slow, steady progress will destroy herculean efforts. So if you're like, oh, I got twice a month, I can lift for 4 hours. But then you're like, I'm going to lift for 20 minutes a day, and you're going to do that for a year.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:22:36

You're going to be in dramatically better shape at the end of the year doing something 20 minutes a day than if you like twice a month. Work out real heavy when you have that four hour block.

Kate Volman [: 00:22:45

One of the things you said was your excuse was that you didn't know how. A lot of people make excuses. We make excuses, and Joe, they're good. Like, we feel good about our excuses as to why we don't do stuff like, oh, I'm not going to do that. 20 minutes of squats and push ups or whatever, because I have to work or I have to go shopping or whatever it is. Like, we make these excuses, we kind of like, get ourselves off the hook. So what are the biggest challenges that people have when they have that dream of, I want to get more fit or healthy, or I want to start this creative project, or I want this change in my life, but they keep making excuses.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:23:23

Are you familiar with Steve Pressfield? Like war of our, he named it the resistance. Your brains to keep you alive and safe. Right? That's the job of the brain. It's not for you to be creative and successful. It's to keep you alive. So anything that's dangerous or different, the brain does not like change. Basically, the resistance is, you'll think of a million different reasons why not to sit down and write that blog post. Oh, I got to call my mom.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:23:47

Oh, I got to do the wash, got to cut the grass. Oh, I didn't get the mail yet. Well, I didn't pay that bill. Think of a million reasons, and that's all. Resistance, pulling you away. That's why you have to put something on. You have to say, I don't care what's going on. I'm taking 20 minutes, and you can't do it when, like, people need you.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:24:05

Like, it's 06:00 it's dinner time, and the whole family sitting down for dinner. It's not then that's not, well, thought out, and that's not going to work, and that's selfish. But, like, if you have an hour lunch break and you're done eating in 15 minutes, I'm saying instead of scrolling for an hour a day, scroll for a half hour a day and do something for you for a half hour. Lift the weights, write the blog post, learn to do the podcast, maybe read a book. Maybe you just happened. There's a bunch of books that I wish I read more. Read for 30 minutes a day and read a good book. Fiction, nonfiction, whatever.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:24:38

Choose the book that best fits you. Read 30 minutes a day. If you went from never reading to reading 20 minutes a day and you did that for a year, you probably read ten books, and those ideas would probably change the way you looked at the world.

Kate Volman [: 00:24:53

What is your favorite question to ask your guests?

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:25:00

I ask these three, no matter where the interview goes, I wrap it up. I ask at the end, take just one lesson away from everything we discussed. What would that lesson be? And I've got some of the greatest one liners. And they'd stop and think, and they share something like, keep going, give them hell. Or like, don't back down or something like that. Everyone's like, gives you something. And they summarize their work in like a sentence. And some of them are pretty powerful.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:25:28

A fun question I asked at the end is like, if you could spend the day with anyone, alive or dead, famous or not famous, who'd you spend the day with? That gets some great answers. And then the last question I asked, which I stole this from Ryan Holiday and Tim Ferriss. Tim Ferriss is like, if you could put a billboard on the highway, what would it say? And Ryan Holiday tattoos sayings on his body, like obstacles away. He goes, the enemy. And I go, if you had to get a quote tattooed on your body, what would that quote say? 80% of them give some really great quotes.

Kate Volman [: 00:26:01

You asked me that. And it was so funny because I did a video about it. I was like, I was on this podcast and this is what Joe asked me. And I said, and I don't like those questions because, a, I don't want to tattoo, and b, when anyone asked me, like, what's your favorite, favorite? Or what's the one thing? I'm like, ah, there's too many. I love. But I did give you an answer, so at least I did that.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:26:26

And here's one. You asked a question, couple what did I learn? And what do most of the successful people have in common? Another thing just popped in my head. Is open mindedness. They have an open mind and they're not afraid to say, I used to do it this way and it served me well for x amount of time. But, like, you know what? Now I'm going to do it. In that way, their mind can be changed. It's not like I'm doing this and they're going to run through the wall. Like, there's a point where they stop.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:26:54

Seth Darwin talks a lot about, like, you have to ignore some costs. Like, some costs are a gift you gave yourself from the past. Sometimes you don't need those gifts anymore. Even though I did all this in the work in the past, my work's over here now. Then you have to move on. So keeping an open mind, I see a lot besides, like, staying in mental and physical shape and always learning, having an open mind to do things a little different and to pivot, I think that's a very common trait of the successful people I've spoken to.

Kate Volman [: 00:27:21

There are some favorite questions that you like to ask. What is one or two questions that you've been asked that kind of made you really think, or it was very thought provoking, or kind of came out of nowhere, and you were like, ooh, that was interesting.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:27:37

Someone asked me, why do you read all these books? Someone mentioned that they weren't a reader. And I go, did you read this? You read that? They go, why would you read those books? Just go live your life. And then that stopped me for a second, and I'm like, why would you spend time in the corner by yourself when you can go out taking a walk with your wife, go for a bike ride, go make more money at work, go play with your kids. Why would you read, why would you spend time doing that? That was one of the first times. Like, wow, not everyone thinks the way I think. Not everyone believes what I believe. Like, I believe, like, if I can get in the mind of Churchill, I could read his book and I could steal leadership principles that he did, or Napoleon or Malcolm X or Washington, Jefferson, whoever. I could read their book and steal something from them.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:28:25

Right. And put that into my life. Yeah. So, like, I think personal experience is a very slow way to level up your life. I think when you steal best practices and ideas from the most successful people that ever lived and tease them and make them yours, I think your speed, the success curve, it's like being in a community of high achievers. You're going to go further. When the river's flowing and you jump in the river and you're flowing, you're just going to go further just being in that river because you're with those like minded people. I think that's what books and courses give you.

Kate Volman [: 00:28:58

It makes sense. And it's funny because as you're talking, it reminds me of this quote that I just read the other day. And it says, a reader lives a thousand lives before he dies. The man who never reads lives only one. You're able to find mentorship in the people that you really appreciate and that are putting things out into the world because those that write books or have a podcast or write articles, you get to know their mind. And I think that's almost more important. It's like, how are they thinking? How are they approaching situations? It's one thing to be able to learn tactical ideas around how people grow a business or how people do something. Step, one, two, three.

Kate Volman [: 00:29:40

It's another to really understand, oh, this person thinks differently. They ask different questions. They approach their life and business very differently. And so to be able to learn that, that comes from reading a book, because it's like you're getting like the whole arc of a story versus like a lot of sound bites that we seem to be very attached to these days with social media and tiktoks and Instagram clips and, you know, 10 seconds, 30 seconds here and there.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:30:09

Yeah, one more point on that. Like, if you go in the world of sales, if you didn't read a sales book, say you're in sales and you didn't find an author that you liked that sped up your learning curve in sales, one you would level up so dramatically faster. Here's a book of great questions. Here's a book of Zig Ziglar, how to close Jeffrey Gittimer. Ask him questions. You read those books and implement them, you're like six months ahead in two days after reading those books. But if you don't, you're going to lose sales. But if you read General James Mattis, who was a secretary of defense, he wrote an amazing book called call Sign Chaos.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:30:39

Came out about a year or two back. He says that if you're a commander and don't expose yourself to the knowledge of history, of the battles that came before you and read about those battles, you're going to fill body bags instead of losing sales because you're going to make the mistakes they made 100 years ago. If you read like Andrew Roberts, who I was lucky enough to get a guest on the show who wrote a biography on Churchill and a biography on Napoleon, if you just read those two books, you would know, like, don't invade Russia. Bad idea. Everyone who does it over the last thousand years, it doesn't work. You don't want to invade Russia. If you expose yourself to that. If you read, they're the benefits of reading.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:31:15

You kind of tease ideas. Best practices of people who came before you.

Kate Volman [: 00:31:20

I know a lot of people listening. They have stacks of books that they want to read or they're thinking, I want to read more. But what do you read? Because you go on Amazon, it's very overwhelming. There's so many books, so many different things I could be reading. So over the past couple years, what are one or two books that really stand out to you? Maybe it's those books that you even go back to time and time again because they're so good.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:31:44

This one here, I love this one from Seth Godin. What to do when it's your turn. And it's always your turn. Fine. That's amazing. It's just a book on creativity. And it's kind of like your book. It just tells you why you should put yourself out there, why you deserve to put yourself out there, even if no one pays attention to you, the benefits it does to share it with the world and how you become a better person.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:32:08

And I think that books, great. Jeffrey Gidemer's book, the sales Bible has kind of made me a salesperson. It's not going to win a Pulitzer Prize, but it's just packed of like dozens and dozens of solid tactics that you could read and implement in your field. And Ryan Holidays, the obstacle is the way in his book, the Daily Stoic are just two books that really hit home the obstacles away. I kind of found him when I blew my knee out training jujitsu. And I read that probably three times during the rehab process. I mean, granted, was just like an ACL injury. Like a million people went through it.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:32:41

I was just at a time where like it kind of affected my work. I had young kids, I couldnt pick them up. I couldnt drive for a while. Like, it really threw a wrench into our little family for like a month or two when I blew my knee out and had to get it fixed and have post surgery, like, was rough on my wife, rough on the kids. It was like 60 days of chaos. And that book was really good to get you through.

Kate Volman [: 00:33:00

Ryan Holiday is such a great writer. He has just written so many books and all of them are so good.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:33:08

There's one of the book from Seth. It's probably the smallest one, and it's one that's probably come up the most on the show that people brought up called the dip. And it's basically like whatever new project you take on, no matter how excited you are, podcasting, blog, becoming a parent, owning a dog, playing the piano, whatever you got in front of you, it's going to start off with a lot of excitement, and then after a while it's going to get hard. Everything worthwhile gets hard. And he calls that the dip. And how you handle the dip, either people quit or they gut through the dip to get back. You bring it to the next level and make a part of their lives. And he has a book.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:33:46

It shows you how to get through the hard part. So you just don't start a thousand things and stop as soon as it gets hard, because everything gets hard at some point.

Kate Volman [: 00:33:54

Zachary I often wonder how many journals, computers, notepads, napkins are just like floating around in the world with tons and tons of ideas because it's really easy to come up with ideas, not as easy to execute on those ideas and then to actually follow through, in fact, with podcasting. I don't know if you know this stat now. I don't. I'm sure I'm not going to get this totally right, but it was something like 80 or 90% of podcasts have only uploaded like ten or less episodes.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:34:21

It's a sea of like five podcasts and done, or eight podcasts and done, like you said, because you start off like, I want to do this, you get, the first one's fun. I think the course I took with Seth said the first three are fun. You better have an idea on the fourth one. You know what I mean? The first one's like, here we are. And like, hey, next episode we're going to talk about this. Then you talk, then you talk about this, then you have the other idea of, I like the fourth one. You gotta have some sort of concept or some sort of game plan, right? Because it gets hard after like the fourth or fifth one.

Kate Volman [: 00:34:52

So Joe, you're awesome, and I just appreciate how you approach life and you're such a positive person and your podcast is amazing. So people need to check out Joe's podcast, built, not born, because you just have really interesting conversations. You ask great questions for those people that are listening and they're thinking, yes, I have this dream, I have this idea, this creative project that I have been thinking about, talking about, dreaming about for years, and I just am making a lot of excuses. What is one thing that you would recommend for that person to do to push them forward into actually getting started with that dream.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:35:35

I would ask that person whatever it is, and it's going to be individual. Everyone's going to have their own individual thing. What they're holding off on. Playing pickleball, piano, guitar, learning Spanish, whatever it is, taking jujitsu. What's the micro next step? The simplest. If it's like, I want to learn to play pickleball, Google pickleball courts in my area, or Google pickleball coaches in my area, right? And like, reach out to that coach to set an appointment. You want to learn to play the piano? Piano lessons near me. What's the next micro minimal step you can take where it's not overwhelming, but you just want to get some momentum because you got to get some momentum going, right.

Joe Ciccarone [: 00:36:15

It can't be like, I got to climb the mountain to get any momentum. You want to take the next micro step from there. I challenge you. What's the next micro step? Maybe it's like then I'm going to visit the jujitsu school, or I'm going to drive to the pickleball instructor's court or whatever their center where they teach. And if you keep taking those next micro steps, six months from now, you're not going to recognize that aspect of your life where it was. You're not going to believe where it was before, because next thing you know, you're going to be in a pickleball league, or you're going to be playing happy birthday on the piano, or you're going to be on the jujitsu mat training twice a week. So I would just take that next micro step that you could do in 10 seconds.

Kate Volman [: 00:36:52

The next right thing. I love that. All right, Joe, thank you so much for coming on the show. You are awesome, and I so appreciate you sharing all of this. I feel like this is such an inspiring episode to really just push people into thinking about life a little bit differently, which it's always a good thing to just think about. What could we be doing in our lives to just grow personally and professionally? And there you have it. I hope that you found some value in this episode. Joe is really a wealth of knowledge, especially because he himself has done so much personal development and then just this idea of being able to talk to so many different people in different fields that have different interests.

Kate Volman [: 00:37:39

That's why podcasting is so great, is because we get to have conversations with people that may be in a completely different field or have completely different interests or think about life and business differently. I'm glad that we dug into some of the questions that he asks his guests because questions change our lives. Great questions change our lives, and they shift our perspective. So I hope you found value in this. And if you are thinking, yeah, you know, I have a creative project. I have a dream that I really want to pursue that I'm not fully committing to, but now is the time. And maybe you just need a little bit of encouragement, need a little bit of a support system, and maybe also a little bit of accountability. We would love to talk to you about what that would look like for you with a coach.

Kate Volman [: 00:38:25

Investing in coach. If you've never invested in a coach now, it is a game changer when it comes to your business and your life. We see it every single day with the clients that we work with. So if you're interested in discovering what that might look like for you to invest in a coach, then we would love for you to go check out floydcoaching.com and someone on our team will get back to you and we'll have that conversation, see if it's the right fit for you at the right time to pursue your dreams and help you become the best version of yourself. Thank you again for listening. We so appreciate you. And until next time, lead with culture.