Uncovering the Secrets to Sustainable Success in Sales with Greta Schulz, President of Schulz Business SELLutions

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I can't do that.I have to have people that are wanting to learn and get better. If you want to learn and you're willing to put in the work, I will make you better.

This is lead with culture. I'm Kate Volman. And on this episode, we're talking about culture and sales. We dig into sales because my guest is Greta Scholes. She is the president and CEO of Scholes business solutions. She has been involved in sales, sales management, marketing, and training for almost 30 years.

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Greta also has her own bestseller she's written called To Sell is Not to Sell. Greta and I have been friends for so many years and I first met her when I was working at a Chamber of Commerce and she was doing sales training way back when. So she's obviously been in this industry for such a long time.

She's experienced a lot of ups and downs in different economies and what's been going on in the world. And so we had a really fun conversation around business and sales and how things were, how things are today when it comes to sales process, and also we definitely talk about some strategies and tips that you can use starting right now to strengthen your sales process and when you're hiring a salesperson, some key things to look for.

So, this was a really fun episode. I hope you enjoy it.

Greta, thank you so much for joining me today.

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Yeah, I've thought about it the other day as we were talking about doing this, we first met yes, at that chamber, you came up with a quirky name for what the presentation was going to be that I did. And they keep that name. And then you and I did

several things together.

it's

been a lot of

years.

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gave to help Chamber members leverage their membership.

I would come in and talk about, All the benefits that we offer and make sure you take advantage of them. And then I was like, we have to have someone come in here and talk about sales and the sales process, because obviously when you're meeting all these great people at chamber events.

you're building relationships, but hey, at some point there's going to be some sales involved in that. And so how can we become better at sales? And so we'd got to do that. It was called from how to wow.

So You have been in the business world for a very long time. You've been coaching, you've been doing sales coaching, all of this stuff. So I'm really excited to have this conversation with you because I'm curious to see what you've seen happen over the past, two decades in business, but before we dive into some of those things.

how do you define company culture?

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Would rather work out of their home, work on their own. so there's a lot of things that define culture, but one of them is you have to create the culture today that whether people are working, outside or they're coming into a particular office, culture is what makes them. Want to be there.

What motivates you and what keeps that team thing going? and there's so many aspects of culture,what culture is, it's so many different things to different people, but I think the bottom line is. A culture is something that you create that's a positive atmosphere, whatever that means to your company, that people want to be a part of,

look what Starbucks did. They created a culture around drinking coffee and getting together. It's not about coffee anymore. It's about all the other things. So creating a culture, I think is about. The connection of people, whatever that looks like in your particular company. And that comes from the top, but if it's not real, it won't be.

So you have to create whatever culture is you, it'll help you attract those people that are of like mind.

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even when we walk into location, or even if you're on the phone with someone like a customer service rep, you can decipher what that culture is like based on information and conversations that you're having with the team members there.

you go into Trader Joe's, they're all so happy and asking you about your day. And they're so helpful. And then when you ask people at Trader Joe's, do you like working here? ninety-nine point nine of the time they're saying yes.

They're so good to us. They give us great benefits. It's like a great working environment, all those

things. obviously culture is extremely important from a sales side of things, sales is so interesting because we have so many easier ways to get in touch with people, digital marketing and lead gen and all this stuff, but you started

doing sales coaching before we had any of that. So what is your experience been as a sales trainer for so many years?

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And then you came back which is, Great, but it's very unrealistic today and everybody wants to be online and all of that. So that particular thing has changed somewhat, but I think what's also important is that team feeling you have to create it. And that's more difficult to create Online coaching is much more difficult. You have to work harder to make it more interesting and more engaging, but it really has changed because Coaching in any aspect has changed. So how do you make it more interesting, more intriguing when you're not in front of someone, because there is something about being face to face.

So it has really shifted and if you're good at it and you understand the shifting of it, then, you're going to make it, but not everybody's great at that. So it is a different challenge.

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That, you're born with those qualities. The problem with that is when somebody says, and you've heard people say this a million times, he or she's a born salesperson. So what that usually means, Kate, is that somebody is really outgoing and really friendly and, remembers your name.

over the years, we've discovered that that not only is. not one of the most important things in sales. It actually can hurt in sales what happens is when somebody is born with the characteristics of you're natural salesperson, everybody loves you. when you're born with those things, then that's how you believe that you should sell.

So you become everybody's friend and if you're friendly with somebody, they're going to buy from you. But today. It's so much more complicated, especially that we are doing things through social media and we're online and we're doing things that are much less in person.

You have to be better than that. what you're born with, that's okay. But there's other things that are more important. that are inside of you that you can nurture and make stronger. there are some basic characteristics. Yes. But one of the best salespeople I've ever worked with was laid back, quiet, a great listener, took lots of notes, really intently paid attention.

And when he came back and made a recommendation he was right on, he listened to them and he really absorbed it that's really the key to sales.

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do we think that this person has the experience to do it. With salespeople, what I find so interesting is how do you determine if somebody is going to be good at sales based on their past experience Was this person really great at sales or did they just have a ton of leads given to them?

Or were they the one that made the clothes or were they part of a team that made the clothes it's so interesting how you can put things on a resume or share what you've done And maybe you actually haven't done that thing So, how can you define a really great salesperson when you're in that hiring process?

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You can make a resume look wonderful and you have to be able to see inside of it. To me, a resumes. Basically irrelevant today and there are things that you want to look for that are not even close to a resume. For example, if somebody is very successful and they show jobs on a resume and they did a particular job that's similar to yours,

Well, great. And I think what happens is a lot of people say, they sell something similar to mine. So, That would be a good fit. And the problem with that is it's almost a lazy decision because we think, well, they've done that. So we can slide them in. what are they bringing with them? What kind of culture did they have in the other company that they're bringing?

Were they given a lot of leads? Were they digging for leads on their own? What do you need them to do? So today you really need to think about what you need first. what kind of money should they make if they're really successful with you? is it a very difficult product or service that you have?

It will take a long time for them to learn it. if somebody is in a company where it's a one call close, well, that's fantastic. But if you have a very complicated sale and it takes layers and layers of that, do they understand how to take each step and sell that piece and sell to the next step those are very, different things.

So it's a really important question. And I think one of the other parts of that question that you had asked is, where do you find people? in my opinion. Not that I think they're bad places to go. But they do a wonderful job at what they're doing for a sales person.

It's a very difficult thing to find somebody that way. And what happens Kate is that people are today at a point where they say, okay, I have a team of 10 salespeople. Let's say I have all these territories, Johnny isn't doing so well. So I gave him a warning.

He's got another 30 days to, get better. If he doesn't, I'm going to have to fill that. So you give, Johnny 29 days and you go, okay, we're done. So let go of Johnny. And now you've got this open hole. You've got clients that are calling, you've got nobody that's being called on.

What do you do? So you go to one of those online programs and you look and you see somebody who's got that, you go, okay, this guy or this woman has something similar. Let's go ahead and Have them come in and they're very charming and they talk the talk and they have some of the jargon and they go, let's give them a shot.

Shoot. We filled it. that is such a scary way to go because all you're doing is taking a shot in the dark. So a couple of things that I would recommend if you're looking for sales people, first of all, You should always be looking. And this is what I tell people. If you found someone better than your best salesperson, would you find a place for them?

Of course you would. So why are you only looking when you need someone? we need to be looking for somebody better than our best person all the time. since a salesperson is an asset, not a liability. You want to be out there talking to people all the time.

So my recommendation is this. If you are a leader of your company, you should be going out periodically with your different salespeople, whether they're on the phone and doing Zoom or whether they're out in the field.

You need to be meeting with them, with their clients. And you need to see how they interact, but more important than that, you need to gain a relationship with the client. So then you can say at some point to them, look, besides Johnny, Who else calls on you that when they call you on the phone or they walk into your office, you pick up the phone or you get up from behind your desk to sit down and talk to them because they always bring you value.

And I don't care what that person sells. When you start asking those questions, you're going to come up with some names. And that's who, as a leader, you should be calling and saying, you know what, Susan, I got your name from ABC company. We both do work with them.

I hear you are wonderful at what you do. You bring them a lot of value. I'm sure you're happy with what you do, but if you ever are looking to change careers or change positions, please talk to me first. And you need to plant, those seeds. And if you get a call from that person, you sit down.

if they prove to be successful to you, grab them. ' cause there's nothing more valuable than that. And you don't wanna be looking when you're in a weak state.

Of needing someone.

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Spam emails and LinkedIn messages of people that they connect with you. And the first thing they do is they send you this five paragraph thing on like what they do and it's so frustrating. I'm like, I guess it has to work at least a little. Otherwise, why are they still doing it?

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in sales, you'll never do well. you desperately are selling from a place of desperation as opposed to a place of strength. So you need to be doing it on a regular basis and.

You also will find out how your sales rep is doing out there too, but you're gaining relationships at a different level with your clients. They get to see the C E O or the sales director or whatever position that person is, So when Johnny leaves your company, he's not taking them all with them too.

What's interesting about it to Kate is I do a lot of work with Vistage and I gave that recommendation and one of the guys called me a few weeks later

And one of the clients said, that's such a different business than ours.

I go and, so she said, okay, I'm going to do it. I said, so even if you end up talking and you decide she's not right for you, that's not the reason to say no. If they really think she brings value, why couldn't she learn your product or service? That's really what you're looking for.

What you're selling is it as important as how you sell it. they'll learn it. They'll

figure it out,

that's really what you want.

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they wanted somebody with, some kind of, pre med or something like that, even if they didn't go into it. They wanted somebody who worked in the device industry. He didn't have any of that. He's like, I'm so frustrated. So he said, this is what I'm going to say to him

And I said, Oh my God, that's great. And he did. And the guy was like dumbfounded.

Yeah. This is why questions change our lives. We've got to ask really great questions to help people

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things a little bit differently, because on the surface, it makes sense. if you've sold widgets, you know how to sell widgets, but not necessarily.

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And he's like, why? And I said, well, first of all, nobody's going to say to somebody in the military, why didn't you meet your goal? No. there is no try.

It's you get it done. You figure it out. And college athletes are very much the same way. But my point is when you are an athlete, there's no like, Oh, I can't do it. What do you mean? You can't do it, figure out how to do it.

And that attitude, that's what makes the difference. And what you were talking about with culture earlier, that culture of. we figure out how to make it happen. And if you're not meeting your goals, how do you change things to meet them?

that's who you want to hire people and have that attitude. They'll learn your, product and service. They'll learn all of that, but higher from attitude. And then train the rest. So taking a shot at hiring somebody with experience in your industry they have experience, but it's the

experience you

want?

How many bad habits are

you gonna have to turn around?

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So let's talk a little bit about the conversations that you're having with leaders over the past few years, because obviously COVID was huge, a lot of businesses went out of business. when somebody calls you to.

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you can't make a beautiful, vase or whatever With clay, that's no good, you need to have the right people in place and they need to have the right attitude that's created by your culture and it's by recruiting and hiring the right people.

So for me, the last few years I've spent saying, okay, what's the common denominator in companies that are really good and companies that, no matter how hard I work with them, we're hitting our head against the wall. number one is definitely culture.

It's a positive, supportive, team building culture. And the team members they'll help you, but you gotta, come with the pack. So that culture is all about. they want to feel good when they go to work.

They want to feel supported. They don't want to feel fought against in sales. That isn't always something that you find. we talk a lot about culture. We talk a lot about recruiting. You've got to have the right people. And what criteria are you using?

them. So that's one. The other thing is leadership. You've got to be able to coach the people that you have. You have great recruits and you have a great coach. That's what makes a great sports team.

they have good plays and they work hard. all of those things are, of course, important. But at the end of the day, recruiting the right people. And having somebody oversee those people and really understand how to coach the individuals. That's the key. to me to go work with somebody who has a bunch of duds,

I can't do that. that's above my pay grade. You know what I mean? I mean, I have to have people that are wanting to learn and get better. If you want to learn and you're willing to put in the work, I will make you better.

those two pieces are really important. And we've been talking about that. you have to have the right people give them the right tools and a coach that's internal to continually keep that going. that's

just how it works.

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help? motivate my people, what do you say back to that?

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If you want to motivate them, you can't motivate anybody to do anything. You can give them an opportunity to motivate themselves. That's how it works. And a good coach, a good leader understands how people are going to self motivate and you can bring that along.

You can't beat him up and you can't rah rah them to motivate themselves. If they're the right person and wants to be motivated, you can help them figure out what makes them motivated. if they want, at the end of the day, they want to change their people, they want to make them more successful.

It depends on what kind of time frame, and it depends on who you've got. I'll do an assessment on every single person and say, here's the good, bad, and the ugly. Okay, 70 percent of your people are not going to make it, and I can't put my name on the

line for

that. That's how it works.

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Cause you know, that they have to have the right

people in order for it to be successful.

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the people that are your audience. I don't know how well they know you, but you've never known boundaries. You said, I want to go into, more social media, different things that you talked about over the years. And I knew that when you did that, you'd be successful because your belief was who you are.

If I want to do it, I'm going to get it done. That's who you are. But that's the difference between somebody that says, I'm going to try it. I'm going to see how it goes. you don't ever see how it goes. You decide how you make it go. Then that's who you have always been. I've known you for a long time.

So I know that, but that belief is what makes people successful or not. It's all about your belief in yourself, your belief in your team and your willingness to do whatever it takes to make it

Happen. That's the key.

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some people only want to focus on all the things they cannot control. then we become a victim of our circumstances because we're always focused on that instead of,what can you control? what are the things that are in your power? when we actually do that, when we create that list, when you start writing those things down, you automatically realize.

There's a lot more that I can do in this situation. There's actually a lot more power that I have in my life, but it might just be a little harder than you want, it actually means you have to work at something. It actually means you have to maybe learn a new skill or get out of your comfort zone or, pick up the phone and call someone who you've been nervous to call or whatever it is, but there's so much that we are capable of when we actually focus on.

What we can control

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because they'll go forward, they'll hit a wall. They'll say, do I go over it, under it or around it? But they don't go, Oh, there's a wall.

That's the difference. It's all attitude. It's all beliefs. that's hard to assess, but that's what you have to know from the beginning. once you have that, as long as you are a good leader, you can mold them and make them the best they can be, which by the way, makes them as a salesperson, more money, all of that.

But at the end of the day, they feel good about it. We all want to be successful. What does success look like? If they feel successful internally, you're helping

shape this

person.

it's really exciting.

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want to see people have

progress.

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we were always doing business development, right? We were always doing sales cause we ran the company. So. it's almost like with sales, like anything else, there's so many opportunities. There's so many people to call. There's so many lists.

almost like analysis paralysis. there's so much to do. What do you do next? And so what we did was we really structured the week. We had to figure out, okay. we had a certain revenue goal, if we're going to make this revenue goal, then we have to like backtrack.

What does that look like? How are we going to get there? So then we finally put on a spreadsheet. How many presentations do we have to give in order to close one deal? Great. If it was 10, then we knew we'd have

to book 20, whatever. How do I get the presentations? Is it networking events?

Is it social media? We had this whole Excel spreadsheet of all the activities that needed to happen every single day, week, month, in order for us to get the numbers we needed in order to achieve that revenue

goal.

So this goes back to what you can control,

I can't control if someone's going to say yes or no, but I can control the amount of calls that I make, the amount of presentations that I give. So for people that are doing sales and for leaders that are listening and you're trying to grow your revenue and what that looks like. Let's talk about a couple things how can someone assess what they're doing now on the revenue side and the sales side and then Put some things into place that would really make an impact on their business in the next quarter.

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And I know a lot of companies will do this. They'll say, okay, from our numbers, if you do 10 presentations a week, you'll get three opportunities and then you'll get one,

And I like that, except if you judge people on the amount of. Presentations or proposals or whatever you call it, again, you're back to throwing a bunch against the wall. So to me, all those things are important, but you have to qualify each piece. So number one,

What are you doing to, Prospect. It could be social media. It could be going to local organizations and building what we call strategic alliances, right? Aligning with people that have similar businesses to yours, but don't compete against you because we talked to similar people.

how many of those are you doing? Then when you get a phone call or a potential opportunity with somebody, what are you asking? How are you pre qualifying that person before you actually meet with them or go to that next appointment. And that's really important because a lot of times they'll say, I have this opportunity.

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What are you looking for? What does success look like? there's lots of questions. Then once you say, this is an opportunity. Then you put that down on your tracking chart Then you've got a second appointment.

Then when you go there or you have that second meeting, when I say go there could be online. It doesn't matter. When you have that conversation. What are you learning about them? do they truly have pain? And is it something you can solve?

Are they the person who makes the decision and have you had at least some level of discussion of money of costs? And the reason that's important is everybody puts that to the very end. So you do these presentations and you do all this elaborate stuff to get to the end and They go 10, 000 dollars?

What would you think it would be? so you have to have some level of conversation, reach that at the second initial meeting to say, okay, from what you've told me so far, I don't have a magic wand, but you're going to be somewhere between this and this.

And shut up and let them react. Did they fall on the floor and die? Did they say, yeah, that's what I figured it would be, or that's a little bit more than I thought. what did you think? Have some level of conversation.

Then when you do that, you summarize that. You set a next step So you have it on your calendar. You send them an email that has a recap of everything you discussed, including, these were your issues and you had to be able to solve this.

We talked about. an estimate of somewhere between this and this per month or per year for the project. as long as we stay within that range, we should be comfortable. And we have next Tuesday at three o'clock for you, your partner and myself to get together, discuss it, present to you our ideas and see if it makes sense.

And by the way, if it doesn't, That's okay, because we may walk away and shake hands at the end of that. If any of the above is incorrect, let me know. If it's not, I'll see you next Tuesday at three. so my point is you're tracking is 100 percent on, but make sure that it's not just the amount of presentations.

If they're not qualified, I'd rather have somebody that does one good qualified one a week than 10 a week. And most of them are just. dog and pony shows.

You have to say how many of these to how many of these to closes. And if you track it like anything else, you'll figure out if I do this, then I'll

get here, but they have to be qualified.

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Are you still good? it was all about expectations and all about clarifying what it is that this step is and the next step but at the end of the day, it's sales and it's relationship building. And I always love that you're able to invite people. it could be a yes or no, either way.

It doesn't matter, but let's get to one of those things and then we can move on with our, days. Sales is such an interesting, Conversation because it can feel really icky to some people and some people just don't want to talk about money and don't really want to have those types of conversations.

But you invite people into that conversation in a way that makes them feel comfortable, that's just business in general, right? we all want to feel like, This is just a conversation that we're having and let's just see where it goes.

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That's okay. But I may have learned enough about you that maybe I can point you in a direction that does make sense

If every time I sat with somebody, they were a good fit and everything worked out perfect, I'd be a gazillionaire and sales would be a lot easier.

that's, all part of the conversation, but it's got to be very. Purposeful. every step along the way is, let's look at this. Let's look at that. we skip over the money a lot. Like a lot of times in that conversation, I'll say to somebody, based on what you've said so far, do you have an expectation of cost or whatever?

And they'll go, can you put that in the proposal? I'm like, I can, but it seems like that's a waste of your time to look at the proposal of mine to write it if we're not on the same page. And they're like, Oh yeah. As much as salespeople are uncomfortable bringing it up,

That's why they say, just send me the

proposal.

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And they're either going to say I thought it was like you said, more like two or,that's a little bit more than I thought, but we could probably swing that or whatever it is,

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just have to get a reaction. when you put it out there, it's so hard to keep quiet because the silence is uncomfortable for you. It's also uncomfortable for them,

So you have to.

let it happen.

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And so mindset is huge. We've got to stay focused when you get 20 no's that you're still able to have those conversations and pick up the phone. it's a different type of role for sure.

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You don't go home and get under the covers.

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so where can people find you and connect with you and learn a little bit more about what you do?

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I don't do all that crap. I have it out there. If you want to try it, you'll get the results. And if they want to do that, they can go directly to sales team, test. com

I'll send the results right away. They'll see where their strengths and weaknesses are in their team and then they can go from there. I'm not obligating anybody to anything, but I wanted to have one out there that somebody would just enjoy taking.

And I've had fun putting these assessments together. I've been

working on it for

years. So enjoy.

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So I hope you got something out of it In fact, we would love to hear from you. So reach out. Let us know What is one takeaway that you received from this episode? So that we know the value that you're getting and also some of the topics that you really want to hear when listening to this show so

Mindset was such a big part of this conversation Rightfully so in business and sales, we have to stay motivated in our, business, even when things aren't going necessarily as planned. And Greta talked a lot about coaching and what that looked like and why that was so important. Obviously we see eye to eye on that particular topic because.

we are a coaching company this is what we do So if you have a team and you are building that team and you know that they need a little support They need a little guidance and obviously you need to be that coach for them. either You're thinking about getting coached because you don't have a coach right now And you know that you need to continually be growing and pushing yourself out of your comfort zone and maybe there's some questions that you've been asking around your business and how you really want to grow and you just need that person to talk to On a regular basis.

We would love to talk to you about what coaching would look like whether that means for yourself or whether that means bringing a coach on for your team members so that you can encourage them to become a better version of themselves. We would love to have that conversation, what that would look like and how it really is going to benefit you and your business this year.

So if you are interested in having that conversation with one of our incredible coaches here at Floyd, you can go to floydcoaching. com and we can just have a quick call. And like we talked about on the show today, We want you to know that you're making the best investment that you can possibly be making and coaching is one of those investments.

And so it's either going to be right for you or not. And we will discover that when we have our call. So We'll have that conversation and we look forward to working with you and your team to help you both become the best version of yourselves.

thank you so much for listening to this episode until next time lead with culture.